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Submitting a very low offer on an REO, agent perception

Question:

Hello Tony,

Thanks for your excellent “tip” after the Inland Empire Investors Forum meeting in Corona about pursuing the REO Pendings, instead of the Actives, for any that fall out.

I have one question that I hope you can lend some perspective on.

If the REO Broker’s lender accepted the high, over-listing offer that keeps happening in Moreno Valley on the homes that I’m making offers on… what is the conversation like with the REO Broker when I can still only offer 65 percent of ARV minus repairs, and that isn’t very close to the listing price… lower than probably several other all cash or hard money offers they got the first go-round?

Obviously, your brokers call you and they know what you’ll pay. I am dealing with these brokers for the first time, as I will not use my buyers agent. I’m going to be asking these REO brokers (or their own buyers agent) to write up my offer directly if the pending sale falls out… but it will more than likely be much lower than the asking price.

Because of the over-bids on low REO inventory, I get the feeling I would be upsetting them or getting off on the wrong foot with them with the TNG offer I need to make.

Just curious how you perceive that conversation if you were me (essentially unknown to them), how you think that would go, and is it a risk for the first impression or relationship building you teach in your course.

Also, as I mentioned, I’m interested in your small group mentoring program when you get it up and running again.

Thanks for your consideration.

Best regards,

B.S.

Answer:

Sorry it’s taken so long to get back to you. Here’s the short answer, I never worry about how an agent “feels” about my offers or me, for that matter, that’s counterproductive. Next time you’re speaking to an agent, start the conversation with a question. Ask them this, “If you’re listing a property for sale, and you had one of these two offers to choose from, would you like the highest offer or would you like the one that’s going to close escrow?” Obviously, they would love to have the highest one close escrow. But, in today’s market that’s far from reality. There are just too many hurdles to clear from the moment the offer’s accepted to that closing that can screw up that deal. It’s not your job to educate experienced brokers and agents. But unfortunately, that’s exactly what you end up having to do. And this is exactly the reason why I place such importance and emphasis on you staying on top of the specific day to day changes affecting your target market.

40.5% of buyers could not secure a mortgage. 36.5% of buyers changed their mind. 5.6% of buyers did not have a down payment. 0.0% of owners decided not to sell. And a whole bunch of other ones ran like hell once they figured out how much they’d have to spend on fixing that house.

Do yourself a favor, stop worrying about all the other offers – cash or otherwise. Focus your attention on the numbers that you need to hit so you can secure a profitable deal. Stop listening to your mind giving you all the reasons and excuses why everyone is going to hate you. If I’ve said it once, I’ve said it a million times,
“your mind is not your friend.” – Vernon Howard.

Focus on providing a solid offer that you can stand behind and close on without hesitation. Make sure that you remind the agents you’re working with of the percentage of fall outs that are presently being experienced in the market due to all of the reasons that I’ve already stated. Over time, this is what will give your offers their strength and solidify your deals.

This may take a little bit of time and some effort on your part. But just like any other mental conditioning, it’s your job to consistently remind them of the nightmare of accepting a supposedly “higher, better” offer that will, more than likely, crash and burn, in exchange for your superior offer that WILL close escrow and secure them a commission check.

Piece of cake, right?

Best,
Tony

Posted on

Banks not looking at offers less than 85% list price

Question:

Tony:
I am following your course more or less to the letter and made some good listing agent contact. I have to admit I am surprised how these guys are surprised to have me come to their office and just chit chat about general things rather than fly in saying I am an investor and need some good deal. I have never come into their office and said I was an investor and that really seems to take tension down a notch or two. Of the 3 I have met one has already asked me to come again for lunch and he was putting me on his 1 call list. I also have a couple of cash buyers and made a few offers. I am stoked!

One thing all the agents have told me though is the banks (fannie mae) won’t even look at an offer less than 85% of the mls list. The properties I am looking at are for the most part not the ones just on the MLS but older properties and have either been a BOM or had price reductions. Have you faced this “nothing less than 85%” threshold? I am going to keep doing what I am doing but not spend time on the fannie mae and freddie mac properties.

D

Answer:

D, I LOVE YOU! YOU’RE DOING A GREAT JOB! It’s wonderful to see when somebody gets it! It’s not that complicated, is it, D? It’s not like we’re reinventing the wheel here.

The 85% thing is real. However, so are the deals that fall between the cracks. The bottom line is this, all listings that do not sell during the initial listing period MUST be reduced until sold – NO EXCEPTIONS! No one at the lenders office owns this property personally. No one at the lenders office holding the title to this nonperforming dead asset gives a hoot about holding onto this pig longer than they have to, that property has got to be sold at some point. And that always occurs when the listing price is lowered enough to motivate someone to pay for it.

Now here’s the thing, every time an REO listing sells, what I mean by that is goes pending, and then falls out before the close of escrow, the asset manager’s as well as the listing REO broker’s motivation for liquidating that property increases at an alarming rate. When a deal falls out of escrow that’s the time that the REO agent and asset manager are most highly motivated to cut listing price and accept concessions to get rid of that property. And if anyone tries to tell you any different, they are full of crap.

You have to make a lot of offers at your prices, meaning, at prices that make profitable sense to you as an investor. Always respectfully, intelligently, and calmly explain to the listing agent or your buyer’s agent how you’ve arrived at your final offer price. Always remember that if an REO listing agent is hinting at the fact that they do not want to submit the offer on a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac listing because it is not within the 85% of listing price AND you know that number will not work for you, it is important that you explain to the agent not only that that price doesn’t work for you but that you are still interested in purchasing that property once it is reduced to a reasonable listing price. Remember to always leave the agent with those words “I WILL BUY IT.”

One final note, please remember that all of these regulations, these 85% rules, these 90 day restrictions will all get kicked to the curb sooner or later. The problem is we never know how or when. Here is what I do and I suggest you do, stay the course. Ignore the chatter, be aware of these senseless stupid rules and regulations that they keep adding and removing faster than you can spell them. In other words, this market, if anything is fluid, ever changing and will eventually turn completely to our benefit as investors. And the only reason this will happen is because the lenders are completely motivated by greed and self-interest. This is the only thing that you can absolutely unequivocally rely on. These guys will hand us their butt on a plate when they finally realize that is what will put the most money in their pockets. How do ya like them apples?

Big Hug
Love,

Uncle Tony

Posted on

Exchange REO to another property to defer taxes

Question:

Is it possible to exhange an REO into another property in order to defer taxes and if so what would be the minimum time frame?

Answer:

You’re speaking of 1031 Exchange Rules. This is really a question for your tax person as we do not give any tax or legal advice.

However, that being said, it doesn’t matter the source of the property, whether it’s an REO or Short Sale, or owner-seller. Whether or not a property qualifies for 1031 Exchange depends on whether it complies with 1031 Exchange Regulations and your INTENT!

I suggest you do the research by checking with your tax person or the internet (such as the IRS website) for these regulations.

Posted on

ARV or Cash flow for REOs

Question:

Tony, what is the highest percentage of ARV that you will offer for an REO? Or, do you strictly look at your cash flow?

-Student

Answer:

I look at my cash flow. Each case is different. I’ve paid probably as high as 70%, but it depends on what I’m going to do with the house. If I know it’s a house that I don’t want to keep as a rental, but I’m not going to have to fix anything, I can just turn around and flip it and make $10,000 after all is said and done, why would I say no to that? People sometimes think “oh I don’t want to waste my time with that.” GET OUT OF HERE! Listen, if I can do $10,000 on a house and do $50,000 a month, I’ll take 3 of those a month. The rest of you guys can keep the rest of them. So, yeah, I’ve done as high as 70%. But again, everything is in line, if you look at the way I calculate numbers on my stuff, I’ll pay a little more if there’s less repair. I’ll pay less if there’s more repair. If there’s no carrying cost, if I have no hard money loan on it, I adjust the numbers so that it makes sense, because that’s what makes the difference between someone who will walk around complaining that he can’t find a deal or someone like myself or Mike Cantu or any of the successful people that you’ve had an opportunity to meet that understand that it’s not about finding a deal. Once in a while, we find deals and they land right in front of us and we trip over them like a rock. But most of the time you’re making deals, ok? It’s creating deals. You’re looking at something and asking yourself, “How can I tweak the numbers or something on the property?” It’s about being creative in the way that you see real estate. If I only had a dime for every time I heard someone who would walk a house with me and go, “my god why would you even touch that? Why would you buy that thing? Are you crazy?!” I was so happy to hear that because I knew this is why I’m making the money I’m making because most people cannot see that and they get stressed out.

-TA

Posted on

Difference with HUD REOs?

Question:

What do I need to know in dealing with HUD REO’s? Any particular approach, lingo, etc. that I may need in order to be taken seriously?

-W.A    

Answer:

The only thing you need to know when it comes to HUD properties is to follow the instructions of a good agent who deals with HUD REOs or HUD foreclosures all the time. We’ve done a little bit of this, we haven’t gone after it like a mean dog as of yet but we intend to because I think that’s an area that’s really developing. But the secret to that is really having an agent who understands and has experience submitting those offers. What’s probably good to do is to find an agent who was in the last market, in the last downturn and who worked a lot with HUD because that’s all there was and they’re very familiar with what you can accomplish and the one thing about HUD that I can warn you about is that they’re detailed because they don’t necessarily hire the brightest staff in the world so they set these stringent rules for themselves and they don’t really respect how much work you put into having to do their offers. Its not so much what you write up to be taken seriously. To be taken seriously, you just have to follow the guidelines that they give you, and that they give everybody the same thing. You won’t shine here. This is not Fannie Mae or any of that nonsense. Basically, it’s just a vanilla, cookie-cutter method. The only thing that could happen is that your agent’s an idiot and drops the ball and doesn’t get your offer in on time, doesn’t have all the appropriate paperwork, hasn’t crossed all the t’s and dotted the i’s. That’s it! And I just read about somebody who in my area had submitted an offer and were waiting and waiting and waiting. They were told they had the deal and they went on and found out that it was back on the market, listed as available again. And this was basically because their agent had screwed up and dropped the ball on something and the property was relisted again. They were able to capture it back again but you know they would have never known. It could have sold to somebody else and when it sells to somebody else you’re S.O.L, you’re toast – that’s it!

So, it’s not so much about any secret weapon. It’s really important for you guys to learn the process that’s involved in these kinds of offers. HUD, you need to understand ALL the elements that are involved in that for yourself so that you double check your agents and I know that sounds a little wacky, but it really is important.
    
-TA

Posted on

What if an REO property needs more than your estimate?

Question:

Hi Tony, Please help me reconcile these two statements: 1. You once said that you never cancel escrow on an REO agent. 2. You also said that you run “an offer mill” making 15 offers per day or so.

How can both be true? What if your offer on an REO property is accepted and then you inspect the property and discover that it’s going to require a lot more work and money than you thought? Do you lower the offer? Isn’t that what you called a “terrorist offer?” Or do you cancel altogether? And if so isn’t that the same as cancelling out of an escrow? You just disappointed an REO agent.

Or do you inspect every single REO property before you make an offer so that scenario never occurs. That means you and Sabrina are inspecting at least 15 properties per day.

 

Answer:

Dear David,

Nice of you to write. Let’s take your questions apart piece by piece.

1 – I don’t run “offer mills.” My goal is to send out 15 offers a day. However, we personally only write a minimum of five and those are LOIs on an 8 1/2 X 11, pre-designed template where we basically just enter the property and agent information. However, we only make offers for two reasons:

One, on properties that I’m interested in buying. These are made through the listing, or a buyer’s agent within the listing agent’s office or through a buyer’s agent outside the listing agent’s office.

Two, on properties where I am interested in meeting the listing agent such as a pending listing where I use an LOI (Letter of Intent/Interest) type offer. This is what I call a “calling card offer.” It’s just my way of introducing myself using a point of interest for the listing agent.

2 – I have never canceled a deal once I have a seller accepted offer and have opened escrow.

3 – Presently, in our market, properties that we pro-actively select to submit offers on fall into one of two categories: REOs or Short Sales. The REOs are typically inspected by Sabrina and/or myself and the agent representing us, prior to submitting our offer.

The short sale offers are submitted with one contingency – “Subject to Interior Inspection.” We seldom inspect short sales unless we are concerned about the present condition or the upgrades. This is typical and accepted when dealing with short sales where the final price has not yet been approved by the lender. Keep in mind, short sales for us are the equivalent of gambling, that’s why we call them “Slot Machine Offers.”

-On a short sale where the selling price has already been pre-approved by a lender and we are interested in purchasing at the approved price, we would be inspecting the property prior to opening escrow.

4 – In the past, when I have been out of town, and before the existence of the Flip video camera, I would have to rely on Sabrina or an agent to inspect a severely damaged property, something that has always made me somewhat uncomfortable. There have been times where they have underestimated the repair costs. One that comes to mind, is actually a recent purchase of a property where they missed that a part of the foundation was made of brick. This is a very costly repair.

However, it would be more costly if I cancelled that escrow as the level of damage it might cause my business may be unrepairable. In all honesty, many times it’s not so much the damage it will cause my reputation as a professional buyer, but the fact that having that level of commitment assures me of the loyalty of top brokers, indefinitely.

In any event, this is the way I’ve chosen to do business and I believe it’s largely responsible for the success that I’ve experienced. Keep in mind that I suggest that as new buyers, you keep your contingencies for inspecting, financing and everything else in place to protect yourselves from your own errors or poor judgement. Take your time, inspect properties carefully, really understand what you’re doing and the cost of those repairs as well as the added value that they will bring to the property. A declining market is not a forgiving atmosphere.

The bottom line is this, we don’t make offers on properties without prior visual inspections! Nor would I recommend that anyone entertain that idea, it just isn’t prudent since the condition of the property is such a crucial part of your equation. If the picture that I conveyed of our system of making offers was a disorganized or disorderly conglomeration of disjointed actions – nothing could be further from the truth!

I don’t make frivolous offers. I don’t waste an agent’s time by making uneducated guesses. Every action we take in our office is well thought out and pre-calculated with a specific reason in mind.

Unfortunately, my ability to communicate may not be as good as the systems in my office. Please forgive me for any confusion that I may have caused.